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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:06 am 
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Primary reason is no song's volume is created equal. I guess you enjoy having to ride your backing music volume all night long. I fir one don't. I would rather deal with mic volumes and fx than also adjust the music so that the next song is equal in volume. I am certain that if you have Sunfly or Pioneer cdg tracks that they are recorded extremely low so after adjusting the volume of those songs so they are audible and moving to say a Sound Choice song uou start out getting blasted by the first notes before turning it down. Breakaway does that for you so you don't look like a smutz.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:06 am 
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Because the difference in volume between manufacturers, difference in mastering, difference in eq, etc....Breakaway takes those differences and helps to balance them out so the overall general sound is similar between tracks.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:08 am 
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Alan B wrote:
I have no issues using the EQ controls on my mixer to improve the sound when needed. And I'm always getting compliments on sound... and all without using Breakaway.

That's awesome for you. I get compliments on mine all the time as well with using it. And your point?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:09 am 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
similar...
my biggest problems with Breakaway (while the sound was very nice and forward) were
1) quiet parts were amplified to levels that soft singing was lost or the loud parts were too low.
one example, Sound of Silence
the beginning part with backing vocals was EXTREMELY loud since the music and singing was quiet, so i had to bring it down to sound the right volume and mix with the singer. then as more instruments came in...Breakaway turned down the volume and the "Garfunkel" voice got quieter as well, so now i had to bring the singer down to compensate.
similar problem with anything the has acoustic guitar alone for parts, Alone Again by Dokken for example.

2) the start is always at full volume. if a song starts with a kick drum or horns....holy popcorn batman...the whole bar is deaf and yelling at me.
It's all in settings. Just like any processor it will need to be adjusted to work best.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:26 am 
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Lonman wrote:
Alan B wrote:
I have no issues using the EQ controls on my mixer to improve the sound when needed. And I'm always getting compliments on sound... and all without using Breakaway.

That's awesome for you. I get compliments on mine all the time as well with using it. And your point?

The point is, with a high quality speaker system, you don't need Breakaway in order to achieve great sound.

Question for you...

I know that you use Electro Voice ZLX speakers (unless you changed them) which are excellent. I also know that you know a thing or two about EQ'ing sound.

So are you going to tell me that without using Breakaway, you wouldn't have great sound?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:20 pm 
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why do you believe that if something can make an improvement on already great sound that it should not be used?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:18 pm 
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Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
why do you believe that if something can make an improvement on already great sound that it should not be used?

I'm not saying that these products shouldn't be used. If you can properly EQ your system these products aren't necessary. And I'm also saying that you can get awesome sound without using this device, especially if you have thousands invested in a high end system. I look at it as overkill.

But... if using these things puts a smile on your face, that's all that matters. Everyone likes what they like. These are just MY opinions on Breakaway.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:01 pm 
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No point in arguing. You are always right Alan. Everyone is always wrong - even when something is explained to you to show otherwise. :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:31 pm 
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Alan B, I rarely have a problem with Breakaway if it can even be considered a problem. I stated on occasion I tweak the bass and when I do it is more a problem of the tracks' manufacturer or possibly my choice of Breakaways' preset coupled with my adjustments to the bass boost and bass shape in relation to the chosen preset. AGAIN, that is on a RARE occasion.

Since its' most desired function is to keep volume the same across all manufacturers tracks and even within the track it is not always like a live performance utilizing volume dynamics as an accomplished band would. Therefore, AGAIN on a RARE occasion, I will compensate manually as any discerning host would.

Please do not read into my response what your opinion wishes. Across the board I definitely had to make many more adjustments before purchasing Breakaway which made hosting more labor intensive than it needed to be. For instance, Chartbuster always utilized more bass than SC dictating a pertinent adjustment especially when one followed the other.

I'm not sure how often Paradigm runs into a problem, but mine is quite rare and I venture to say undetectable to my audience if left alone. Their ears are not as critical for sure.

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Last edited by dvdgdry on Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:36 pm 
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dvdgdry wrote:
Please do not read into my response what your opinion wishes. Across the board I definitely had to make many more adjustments before purchasing Breakaway which made hosting more labor intensive than it needed to be. For instance, Chartbuster always utilized more bass than SC dictating a pertinent adjustment especially when one followed the other.

And i'm willing to bet it had nothing to do with the quality of your equipment. It's simply a matter of manufacturer inconsistencies accross the board.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:37 am 
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I sought out a PC graphic to attenuate the backing tracks as I do believe the speakers I use are
deficient in producing a good sound for the backing tracks, especially at the bass end.

I am using Celestion SR-1's and I believe they are excellent at producing a very flat sound.
For me this produces an excellent vocal sound but not so good for the backing tracks.

I appreciate this may best be solved by adding a bass cab to more effectively cover the bass end.
I do have the Celestion SR-2 cabs, which are excellent but too big for a car.

I believe arriving at a good sound is not just about quality but suitability of equipment for the task
and how well it is used.

It is interesting to have so many varied opinions and I for one enjoy hearing about them,

Kindly,

Robbie


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:39 am 
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Lonman wrote:
No point in arguing. You are always right Alan.

Thank you! I'm glad you finally realize it! LOL

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:09 am 
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This subject has made me think a little more about modern sound and eq and how we listen to music.

I would like to make the following observations.

I have an old stereo/hi fi sound system as well as a modern pair of SONOS speakers.

Everything on the SONOS sounds more lively than the older hi fi. It is obvious the SONOS is shaping the sound and as a listener I am getting used to it and I like it, to a point. It is a bit like adding sweetener, tastes great but the taste is coloured.

When we listened to music on our old hi fi the objective was to re-produce the sound as if we were hearing it live. After all most music was performed live. Real drums, bass, guitar etc. So we had some reference point as to what our music should sound like just from life experience.

Much of today's music, especially chart, of which Karaoke is naturally a reflection, is produced artificially. The composer is not trying to reproduce real sounds, he is making up his own sounds that pleases him/her. Even if you listen to this live it is a sound that is conjured up by the composer performer.

So you get to hear this music on a modern sound system which is also coloured in its own right. You really have no reference as to how it was intended to sound so you just listen to it as presented and change the sound if your equipment allows you to in a manner that sounds pleasing to your own ear.

Think of how often you hear the loud bass thump from a modern car. Not a natural sound but chosen by the listener.

Is it no wonder then that trying to amplify this music has become more subjective as we have got used to listening to music as we like it without the reference in the old days of trying to make it sound comparable to a live performance.

Add to this that some people have never even heard their music on a less coloured older hi fi system, music sound expectations must differ.

Any comments.?

Kindly,

Robbie


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:07 pm 
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dvdgdry wrote:
Please do not read into my response what your opinion wishes.

I won't. As I've said, if you're happy with Snake Oil, then for God's sake, use it and be happy.

What I don't understand...

Why would you buy a top dollar, high end speaker from someone like QSC or EV, who's engineers have designed their systems and tuned them to produce optimum results and sound amazing and then think you need to alter the sound that they were intended to produce?

Did you ever hear that less is more?

When we buy a speaker system, we're going to buy what sounds best to us. We're not going to buy a system and say; "I think it sounds great but I'll use Breakaway to make it sound better". Who does that? Is that what you're thinking when you're buying that $1500 QSC speaker?

Breakaway and similar products are nothing but an illusion. Many have refereed to the Sonic Maximizer as nothing more than a glorified tone control. No different than Breakaway in my opinion. One uses hardware, one uses software.

Given the choice, the Sonic Maximizer sounds so much better IMO.

So, again... I say, if you're happy with these gizmos, than by all means use them. I really don't care. But as for me, I continue to receive compliments on my sound quality all the time.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:14 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
dvdgdry wrote:
Please do not read into my response what your opinion wishes.

I won't. As I've said, if you're happy with Snake Oil, then for God's sake, use it and be happy.

What I don't understand...

Why would you buy a top dollar, high end speaker from someone like QSC or EV, who's engineers have designed their systems and tuned them to produce optimum results and sound amazing and then think you need to alter the sound that they were intended to produce?

Did you ever hear that less is more?

When we buy a speaker system, we're going to buy what sounds best to us. We're not going to buy a system and say; "I think it sounds great but I'll use Breakaway to make it sound better". Who does that? Is that what you're thinking when you're buying that $1500 QSC speaker?

Breakaway and similar products are nothing but an illusion. Many have refereed to the Sonic Maximizer as nothing more than a glorified tone control. No different than Breakaway in my opinion. One uses hardware, one uses software.

Given the choice, the Sonic Maximizer sounds so much better IMO.

So, again... I say, if you're happy with these gizmos, than by all means use them. I really don't care. But as for me, I continue to receive compliments on my sound quality all the time.

Answer this one question honestly, do any of the speakers that you mention even out the volume levels of your backing music? My guess is no. That means you have to work harder than you absolutely need to fir you to get perfect sound while with breakaway, I can worry mire abiut the singer's volume and not have to remember that Sunfly's volume is that much lower than Sound Choice's. It unlike Compuhost works on all audio coming from your computer such as music videos and DJ music.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:29 pm 
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Again, even explained - he STILL don't get it. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:46 pm 
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Alan B wrote:
Paradigm Karaoke wrote:
why do you believe that if something can make an improvement on already great sound that it should not be used?

I'm not saying that these products shouldn't be used. If you can properly EQ your system these products aren't necessary. And I'm also saying that you can get awesome sound without using this device, especially if you have thousands invested in a high end system. I look at it as overkill.

But... if using these things puts a smile on your face, that's all that matters. Everyone likes what they like. These are just MY opinions on Breakaway.

so fill us all in...
what part of your speakers controls the volume differences between manufacturers? it's not the EQ...

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:53 pm 
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The speaker is the terminus of the sound production process.

One thing to remember: Garbage in = garbage out.

The processing (hardware or software) is the method that alters the sound signal to EQ/Amplify/Normalize the various signal sources (music & vocals) - before - it gets to the speakers.

Quality speakers are awesome, but they will still only sound as good as the signal they are reproducing.

Try sending your sound directly from source (laptop & mic) directly to your speaker of choice with no processing in between. No hardware/software, just line/mic signal direct. Describe the result.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:05 pm 
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Lonman wrote:
Again, even explained - he STILL don't get it. :roll:

No kidding!

I guess DSP at the speaker is good, but DSP at the source is bad. Weird.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:07 pm 
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Alan, You ARE reading into my statements what your opinion wishes.

If you will reread my replies they state the entire main purpose of Breakaway for the way I use it is to function as a volume constant. I have NOT said anything about it making my system sound better. Just like you adjust for background EQ, I have done the same thing for the particular setting it contains that I prefer, while also utilising the Range, Power, Speed, Bass Boost, Bass Shape, and it's Volume control. Because of it I simply do NOT have to adjust for each and every change of manufacture and their differing recorded EQs and volume levels. It is rare when I do, but there are isolated incidents that require that. It is mostly set it once and quit worrying about that part of the show.

Are you telling me and the rest of us that you do not have to make any adjustments? That your sound card does all that and more? Or that EV does that for you?

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